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Hypocrisy 101

By DMartyr · Wednesday, September 23. 2009 14:34
Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi complains the muslim-loving, Jew-hating United Nations has failed to prevent wars:

Since the world body was founded in 1945, Gadhafi said it had failed to prevent or intervene in dozens of wars around the world.

"But 65 aggressive wars took place without any collective action by the United Nations to prevent them, Gadhafi said.


The irony is, a majority of those wars involve Islamic aggression.

A U.N. problem? Definitely a world problem...



(Cross-posted at Al Salibiyyah)
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Here is what a handful of random people think about this article. But first, the fine print:
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captainfish on 2009-09-23 21:19 #1
*Leave it to Gaddafi to point out that the U.N. is pointless. Worthless. Useless.

And, it is ironic that he complains of wars, when he himself and his people are responsible for many of them. Along with he and his gang internally.
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upyernoz on 2009-09-25 14:40 #2
*[em]The irony is, a majority of those wars involve Islamic aggression.[/em]

how do you know that? the link you give is only for conflicts that are "ongoing" and doesn't list who is the aggressor in each one (and for most of them the "aggressor" is very much a debatable point).

but let's assume every one listed on that chart that involves muslims has the muslims as the aggressor, that gets you only 12. how is that the majority of the 65 qaddafi was referring to?
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DMartyr on 2009-09-25 14:53 #3
*No one is preventing you from researching for yourself. I am certain you have, and had you found I was incorrect, you would have been all too eager to post here.

It isn't a coincident that a disproportionate number of terrorists are muslim (and, btw, more than ALL other religions COMBINED) and islam is disproportionately represented in a MAJORITY of ALL modern world conflicts.

Also, if you had bothered to research at all, or even read more carefully, you would have noticed the list I linked is ongoing conflicts, while Gadhafi refers to 65 conflicts since 1945, some of which have been resolved.
Reply  
upyernoz on 2009-09-25 15:06 #4
*"It isn't a coincident that a disproportionate number of terrorists are muslim (and, btw, more than ALL other religions COMBINED) and islam is disproportionately represented in a MAJORITY of ALL modern world conflicts."

huh? most terrorism happens in latin america, the kidnapping capitol of the world (largely because of south american drug gangs). it's simply not true that most terrorist acts are committed by muslims. it is true that if a muslim does something violent it's a lot more likely for the american press to call it "terrorism."

"Also, if you had bothered to research at all, or even read more carefully, you would have noticed the list I linked is ongoing conflicts, while Gadhafi refers to 65 conflicts since 1945, some of which have been resolved."

and maybe if you read my comment more closely you would notice that i pointed out that "the link you give is only for conflicts that are 'ongoing'" whereas qaddafi was talking about every conflict since 1945. in other words, one of the points i was making is that your link doesn't prove what you claim it does.
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DMartyr on 2009-09-25 16:32 #5
*Most modern terrorism is committed by muslims.

Here's a challenge:

List an act of terrorism committed by any religion other than islam. I will list TEN acts committed by a muslim for every one you list committed by a person or group claiming to belong to any other religion.

We'll limit acts to the past 10 years. "Terrorism" should be defined as acts of violence intentionally targeting INNOCENT civilians (not militants) and for the purpose of intimidation and/or promotion of the terrorists own ideology.

You can list them any time. I will respond with TEN for every one you list within 48 hours.
Reply  
upyernoz on 2009-09-25 16:51 #6
*"List an act of terrorism committed by any religion other than islam. I will list TEN acts committed by a muslim for every one you list committed by a person or group claiming to belong to any other religion."

that's ridiculous. what is this some kind of game? besides, we'll be here forever. in 2005 there were approximately 3,000 kidnappings by rebel groups in colombia. and that's just one latin american country in a single one of the ten years you're proposing. so you want me to go through, listing each of those kidnappings, ten at a time. and then when i'm done with that, i can move on to another year in colombia, then another, until i finish all of the past ten years. then i can go to another latin american country and do the same thing. then when i'm finished with latin america, i can start using sri lanka, which for most of the last ten years had the highest rate of suicide bombings in the world. then there's tibetan on han violence, the lords resistance army in uganda, et cetera. we will literally never finish. at 48 hours a cycle, we will both be dead before i even leave latin america, much less get to any of those other conflicts, or still others that i didn't even mention like the basques.

what an insane idea.
Reply  
captainfish on 2009-09-25 23:34 #7
*ummmm. hello? kidnappings is a crime. Not an act of terrorism.

If you are going to be in the stadium while the game is underway, at least take the time to know WHAT game is playing.

And, yeah, Sri Lanka... al-queda suicide bombings.

"lord's resistance army"??!?!?

Dude, put down the tokes and breathe some air for a while. That is just a plain home-grown terrorist with self-delusions of god-hood (kind of like Mohammed). They are not Christian if that is what you are trying to imply.

And by the way, brainiac, Uganda is in S. Africa, surrounded by Democratic Republic of the Congo, Kenya, Rwanda, Sudan, Tanzania, which are other areas of constant and ongoing warfare.

I find it difficult to call any attack by a party engaged in an ongoing war as terrorism. However, what the LRA has done is considered Crimes Against Humanity.
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DMartyr on 2009-09-26 07:45 #8
*Yeah, I didn't think you'd accept,up.

Should have been easy for you, since you claim muslims don't commit more acts of terrorism other groups. I offered TEN to one, so the burden would have certainly been on me if you are correct.

Or maybe you know the truth, but are too arrogant (and too islamic) to admit that islam, more than any other religious group, condones, encourages and promotes terrorism.

You don't have to take my word for it. A little research will expose the death cult for what it is. Muslims are far too happy to demonstrate their love for violence.
Reply  
upyernoz on 2009-09-26 08:17 #9
*"ummmm. hello? kidnappings is a crime. Not an act of terrorism."

so in your mind if something is a crime then it can't also be terrorism? hijacking a plane is a crime too. as is murder. actually, "terrorism" itself is a federal crime (18 U.S.C. 2332b), if you click on the link you'll note that the federal government considers "kidnapping" to be a predicate offense to a terrorism charge.

"And, yeah, Sri Lanka... al-queda suicide bombings."

what do you mean by that? maybe you've never heard of the tamil tigers...

"'lord's resistance army'??!?!?

Dude, put down the tokes and breathe some air for a while. That is just a plain home-grown terrorist with self-delusions of god-hood (kind of like Mohammed). They are not Christian if that is what you are trying to imply."

hey, at least you're acknowledging that they're terrorists. and they consider themselves to be christian and do their operations in the name of their religion. whether or not they are "really" christian probably depends on who you ask. but your assertion that they're not seems exactly parallel to muslims i know who claim that al-qaeda members are not "really" muslim. and, in any case, whether the LRA is christian or not, herr martyr only asked me for examples of non-muslim terrorists groups. they didn't have to be christian to qualify. (though i would count them as "christian" because they consider themselves to be christian, just as i consider al-qaeda to be muslim, even though some muslim leaders have effectively excommunicated them)

"And by the way, brainiac, Uganda is in S. Africa, surrounded by Democratic Republic of the Congo, Kenya, Rwanda, Sudan, Tanzania, which are other areas of constant and ongoing warfare."

uh, "brainiac", uganda is in east africa, not south africa. my brother lived in kenya for a while and i've been to both kenya and uganda. i know a bit about the conflicts in both countries. (i wouldn't say there was "consistant and ongoing warfare" in kenya, rwanda (the rwandan civil war ended almost 15 years ago) or tanzania. and the warfare in uganda is localized to the far north where the LRA is active.

but putting that aside, what is your point? are you saying that any place with "constant and ongoing warfare" doesn't count if we're listing terrorist acts? wouldn't that bring every incident that happens in iraq, afghanistan, pakistan, sudan, and israel/palestine off the table?
Reply  
upyernoz on 2009-09-26 08:28 #10
*"Should have been easy for you, since you claim muslims don't commit more acts of terrorism other groups. I offered TEN to one, so the burden would have certainly been on me if you are correct."

did you read my comment above? i didn't say i would have a hard time finding terrorist acts committed by non-muslims, i said i would have too easy of a time! if i'm listing one non-muslim act every 48 ours it would take years for me just to get through a single year of kidnappings in colombia, a single country. then after that i have more years and more countries to go to. we would simply never finish.

"Or maybe you know the truth, but are too arrogant (and too islamic) to admit that islam, more than any other religious group, condones, encourages and promotes terrorism."

i'm "islamic". what a bizarre assumption. talk about arrogant!

frankly, i think your problem is that you don't know much about islam at all and yet you want to pass yourself off as some kind of expert. i mean, it seems like what you've learned about islam comes almost entirely from anti-muslim web sites. frankly, that's about the stupidest way to learn about that, or any other religion. it's like someone who spends a lot of time on anti-semitic sites passing themselves off as an expert on jewish theology.

or maybe i'm wrong. so tell me, how many muslim do you know and have talked to about their religion in person? how many mosques have you visited? how many muslim countries have you been to? what languages do you speak?
Reply  
DMartyr on 2009-09-26 09:57 #11
*Actually, I learned about islam through muslims and by reading the hadith and quran.

You've been here a long time and have yet to disapprove anything I have asserted about islam.

Feel free to try. I can back anything I say about islam with islam's own texts or from islamic scholars.

I dont need "anti-muslim" web sites. There are no secrets. muslims are quite open about their <strike>faith</strike> cult. Their "holy" book is available for all to read. The hadith - the behaviors, sayings, and actions of their child-raping prophet - is available to all who want to read it. muslim scholars are all too happy to publish their expert opinions and interpretations.

I have direct access to countless experts of islam, arab speakers born and raised as muslims, and people who know more about islam than "upyernoz".

The fact remains, I gave you the opportunity to prove your claim that muslims were not responsible for a majority of all acts of religious terrorism. You declined.
Reply  
upyernoz on 2009-09-26 11:28 #12
*"Actually, I learned about islam through muslims and by reading the hadith and quran."

حقا؟ تقرا اللغة العربية؟

i'm still waiting to hear about how many muslim countries you've visited and how many mosques. i mean, obviously if you only speak to people who have a beef with islam than you'll get a different view of the religion that actual believers. i'm not just talking about ex-muslims, i mean people who actually believe in their religion and like it. that's more like most of the people who call themselves "muslim."

i used to get an earful from an ex-mormon friend of mine, he'd go on and on about the evils of his old church. but only a moron would think that was the whole story. there are plenty of mormons who like their faith. a lot of my anti-mormon friend's beefs were not things that the true believers saw in their own religion.
Reply  
DMartyr on 2009-09-26 12:18 #13
*Yes, really.

Again, your reading comprehension lacks. I use islam's own texts, which are readily available online and offline.

I dont need anti-muslim websites qhen the quran states muhammad is the PERFECT example of conduct, and then read about his brutal conduct and savagery in the hadith.

I dont need anti-muslim websites when muslims throughout the world gleefully behave as violently and as savagely as muhammad teaches in the the quran and hadith.

Here is a MUSLIM operated website that has the quran and hadith available:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/

Read verse 33:21 browse the hadith to read muhammad's conduct and sayings, such as lusting after a 6 year old child (raping her at 9 - but only waiting because she became violently ill), torturing innocent people, teaching lying and deceit, teaching violence and terrorism as intimidation tactics, setting death sentences for apostates, stoning to death women, beating his own wife, lying, cheating, stealing, raping, murdering, and on and on.

People don't need muslims or non-muslims teaching about islam. You have access to everything muhammadan muslims have access to (and more).
Reply  
DMartyr on 2009-09-26 12:25 #14
*After reading the hadith, and understanding that verse 33:21 in the quran stipulates that muhammad - no other authority - is the example that muhammadan males must follow in order to be "good" muslims, you will see that islamic terrorists are true islamic muslims.

Anyone tells you differently, they are either lying to you, or are themselves ignorant of islam.
Reply  
upyernoz on 2009-09-26 12:50 #15
*"Again, your reading comprehension lacks. I use islam's own texts, which are readily available online and offline."

but there's all sorts of translation problems. the translations i have seen online often are really interpretations, spun to cater to the prejudices of particular political partisans.

plus, most muslims don't pay much attention to much of their own religious texts. just like most christians and jews only focus on a small percentage of what is actually in the bible. a religion is a practice. the texts alone are always an incomplete picture. otherwise, all christians would be pacifists and football would be considered an abomination and the basis for execution
Reply  

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