The Ghost of Snapped Shot

Or, welcome to my low-maintenance heck.

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Professional Protester, Palestinian-Style

The names are coming in—Earlier bloggers called him "Hand Gesture Man," and LGF'ers seem to prefer "Rageman" (Leaps over "apartheid" barriers at a mile a minute?). Aussie Dave made me laugh the hardest, though, with his suggestion: Hairstyle Man. Don't mess with the power of mousse, man!

Wow, there are some nice high-resolution photographs, many of which I haven't seen in the Getty archives, over at Dutch blog Geenstijl.

It's OFFICIAL: the Photoshop Contest is on!


Angrier than an average bear.
What is it about the Jihad-supporting world that attracts such virulent displays of always-available-on-command anger? We've seen travelling rage shows all the world over, and have even been introduced to the most famous professional protester in the world, and yet, no matter how many times such professional outragists (not to be confused with "bloggers") are unveiled as the professional puppets that they are, there always appear more.

Here's the latest example of Professional Raging, from the Palestinian territory, which we noticed a week or so ago:—He is frighteningly reminiscent of a particularly angry gym teacher we had back in 7th grade. Rooster, you remember who I'm talking about?

I'm betting that the photo above came straight from AFP photographer Abbas Momani's best stack of Pulitzer padding material, as it shows a very "oppressed" Palestinian, enraged at the treatment supposedly being given to him by the evil Israeli Defence Forces.

Auditioning to be the next Verizon Guy—Can you hear him now?.
Could his rage be too good to be true?

Lo and behold, shortly after posting the Rage Boy: Palestine article, I received an e-mail from a couple of fellow bloggers who have been tracking this guy too, and from the looks of things, he's been at it a while. And that led me to discover once again, that the world will never have quite enough manufactured rage.

I immediately contacted longtime "friend" Mohammed Muheisen (who has actually become quite cordial towards this website as of late), and asked him if he knew anything about the gentleman pictured, and for Mr. Momani's contact information. Muhammed said that he's seen the protester on the photo wires, but didn't know anything more about him.

I then passed my request for information on to Abbas Momani himself, to see if I could get to the bottom of exactly who is this ragin' non-Cajun—as opposed to this guy—that he seems to be so fascinated by.Mr. Momani responded to my request by stating that he didn't know the man personally, but said that he "lost a lot of his lands" due to Israel's "apartheid" separation barrier, and shows up in the outskirts of Bilin every Friday to protest against it. (To "fight" against it is the exact phrase used.)

One interesting point to think about here:—Claims of land-loss to the "Zionist occupiers" are not exactly rare in the area. In fact, the problem is so bad that if one were to total up the claims of "stolen" land, one would end up with a total greater acreage than all of the farmland in Israel and Palestine combined. In light of that, I requested more information from Abbas as to whether anyone's actually seen any documentary evidence that this man's lands have actually been stolen, but I haven't heard back from him at present. Were this gentleman to actually be able to prove that Israel stole his land, one would think that he'd be bringing a case before the Israeli Supreme Court, considering how sympathetic they tend to be towards Palestinian claims, rather than appearing at a weekly anger-fest.

So we're back to our traditional display of patterns:—Protests held every Friday at Bilin, presumably after the morning prayers have been completed. These same rallies are attended by a merry band of anti-war groups and other assorted NGOs, and are covered by the photographers with striking regularity. And, while these events are generally hailed by the wires as being "peace" protests, you'll notice that there are always thugs throwing stones present, which is still a rather violent act, last I checked.

It is amusing to see that at each one of these little shin-digs, our mysterious serial outragist manhandles his way right up to the edge of the Israeli guard force, and spends an unknown amount of time engaging in some sort of verbal battle, dutifully recorded week after week by the exact same photographers.

But alas, I've spoken for far too long. Let's get on with the photographs, which I've helpfully numbered for your own handy reference.

Thanks to the truefactor blog, here's our first brief timeline. Just for full disclosure, this blog address was e-mailed to me shortly after my original Rage Boy: Palestine piece, and appears to have only one article published. I can't therefore vouch for the source, but hey, the photos do speak for themselves, do they not?

[Ed.:—This definitely lends credence to those of you who suggested that this dude looks like Edward James Olmos!]
1: Friday, 16 December 2005. (Original attribution pending)


2: Friday, 8 December 2006. (Original attribution pending)


3: Friday, 22 December 2006. (Original attribution pending)


4: Friday, 12 January 2007. (Original attribution pending)


5: Friday, 26 January 2007. (Original attribution pending)


6: Friday, 2 February 2007. (Original attribution pending)


7: Friday, 30 March 2007. (Original attribution pending)


8: Friday, 6 April 2007. (Original attribution pending)


My apologies for all of the "Original attribution pending" nonsense:—I honestly don't have any record of which photographer took which photograph, as this wasn't included in the caption information over yonder. I'll update this page with the correct attributions if I discover them, of course—Feel free to e-mail me if you have any information about who took these pictures.

Blogger Busywolf has more photos, but not retaining the captions prevents me from using his data as a reference. Fortunately, Ye Olde AFP Archives had source material a-plenty. The earliest date I have been able to find there is early April, 2005, though I suspect he's been around a lot longer than that. If any of y'all have seen him earlier, or in other protests than the weekly Bilin gatherings, I'd love to hear it.

9: 28 April 2005. (ABBAS MOMANI/AFP/Getty Images)


10: 16 June 2006. (ABBAS MOMANI/AFP/Getty Images)


11: 10 June 2005. (ABBAS MOMANI/AFP/Getty Images)


12: 17 June 2005. (EITAN ABRAMOVICH/AFP/Getty Images)


13: 15 July 2005. (MLADEN ANTONOV/AFP/Getty Images)


14: 15 July 2005. (MLADEN ANTONOV/AFP/Getty Images)


[Ed.:—Yeah, payback's exactly like that.]
16: 16 December 2005. (JAMAL ARURI/AFP/Getty Images)


17: 16 December 2005. (JAMAL ARURI/AFP/Getty Images)


[Ed.:—Yawn, another paean to hippyism.]
18: 29 January 2006. (ABBAS MOMANI/AFP/Getty Images)


19: 31 March 2006. (Paula Bronstein/Getty Images)


20: 31 March 2006. (Paula Bronstein/Getty Images)


Bonus Time


Here's a delightful out-take gallery from these same protests, now including our aforementioned "international" "activists" (pronounced "meddlers" over my way).

[Ed.:—Arresting a smelly hippy. Should've just had Fred Thompson punch him.]
15 July 2005. (MLADEN ANTONOV/AFP/Getty Images)


[Ed.:—Yeah, 'cuz Ché totally cared about the "Palestinian" "cause," maaaan.]
28 October 2005. (ABBAS MOMANI/AFP/Getty Images)


[Ed.:—Wait, I'm confused.. I thought they were for hanging the Ku Klux Klan?]
27 May 2005. (JAMAL ARURI/AFP/Getty Images)


[Ed.:—Manliest. Protester. Ever.] (Photo by Uriel Sinai/Getty Images)

 Tags: abbas momani eitan abarmovich jamal aruri mladen antonov paula bronstein uriel sinai AFP Your Protest Stinks


Comments:

#1 Brian C. Ledbetter 27-Dec-2007
If you want to post a photoshop image here, make sure you upload it to a server on the Internet first (ImageBucket,for instance). Then, take the URL of your picture and surround it with tags (no spaces, and be sure to put the whole URL, including http://—And drop me a note if you run into problems!)

Hope y'all have fun! I look forward to seeing what you've got!

Regards,
Brian
#2 anti-evil 27-Dec-2007
So how does this possibly relate to the documented fact that Palestinians suffer an awful lot at the hand of an evil, extremist Jewish madness, supported by the evil, extremist American christian conservatism?
#3 Capitalist Infidel 27-Dec-2007
Sure didn't take long for an anti-Semite to show up
#4 anti-evil 27-Dec-2007
And here comes the usual hypocrisy.

So just because I uttered the words "extremist Jewish madness" I'm an antisemite? What about all the hypocrites screaming "Islamic Terrorism" all day long? They're good christian conservatives, right?

And they say its the Muslims that ask for special status.
#5 Doug 27-Dec-2007
what about extremist anti-Christian madness?

what about extremist anti-Jewish madness?

what about extremist anti-American madness?

what about extremist anti-free market madness?
#6 mother brain 27-Dec-2007
typical anti-semitic nutbar reflexive argument.

Doesn't Pallywood, Hamas & Hizballah (the party og god) repeatedly stage their own photos?
Doesn't these groups repeatedly kill jews, christians, and any other political opponents?

Oh well i don't know. Perhaps it's easier for Sean Pean and Hugo Chavez to tell me what to think.
#7 27-Dec-2007
See how much better the palestinian situation gets once they stop shooting dozens of rockets per day at innocent civilians in Israel. Chances are it would lead to better conditions - but we wont know that as they have never tried the peaceful route.
#8 Highlama 27-Dec-2007
The Arabs have always been in the position to end their own suffering ... they choose not to. They first assailed Israel with Arab nationalism backed by the USSR and now they attack Israel with religious extremism, backed by Liberals and socialists of all kinds. Yet if they would only accept the reality of Israel their hate based "suffering" would come to an end in short order.
#9 SouthParkConservative 27-Dec-2007
-----------------------
And here comes the usual hypocrisy.

So just because I uttered the words "extremist Jewish madness" I'm an antisemite? What about all the hypocrites screaming "Islamic Terrorism" all day long? They're good christian conservatives, right?

And they say its the Muslims that ask for special status.


-----------------------

Are you actually making the assinine claim that they aren't screaming for special status in any country they move to? What about foot baths installed in public universities using taxpayer money? What about the bending over backwards that the Islamists are asking most of Europe to do to kowtow to their demands? What about the rise in honor killings in European countries that has happened since unfettered Muslim immigration has begun?

As for your ludicrously facetious statement about "Islamic Terror"...

Are you truly so blind as to not see the 10,262 terror attacks that have been perpetrated _by Muslims_ since 9/11/2001?

We are not the ones associating Islam with their actions; _they_ are, and they make no bones about screaming their viewpoints at every photographer/journalist/etc. that they see.

Why is it that leftists always consider Christian conservatism to be as bad as strapping a bomb to oneself and blowing oneself up in a crowded area? They don't have any idea what true Right Wing extremism is.

I am an agnostic Constitutional Libertarian, and I would rather live in a Christian dominated country than a Muslim dominated one, 10 out of 10 times. At least under the Christians, I'm free to not worship their god if I don't want to, and I won't get stoned or hung for my lack of belief. You see, there is no compulsion in relgion with regards to Christianity, unlike in Islam where they are advised by the example of Mohammed to:

Tabari VIII:178
Ishaq:550 "Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka'aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa'd [the Qur'an's one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah's Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur'an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam]."

If the Palestinians want peace so badly, they should stop firing missles at random into northern Israel, stop acting like terrorists, and start accepting the existence of Israel, instead of ignoring the real authors of their woes; the other Arab countries in the region who wanted nothing to do with ANY of the refugees from the 2 wars that the Arab world waged against Israel.

It's not going anywhere. And I hope it doesn't. It's the only truly democratic and Western nation in that whole dark and backwards area of the world.

Finally, if you live in the US, anti-evil, I cordially invite you to move to a Middle Eastern or North African country and experience for yourself the gentle tolerance and love of the Islamofascists there. Just don't bring any music, or reading material besides the Qu'ran/Hadith/Sira. After all, they beat and jail rape victims over there for the crime of being with an unrelated man. Doing something against sharia law has harsh consequences.
#10 captainfish 27-Dec-2007
I stand and applaud you SouthParkConservative. I could not have said it better.

Sometimes, the asinine statements these people spout makes one wonder if they even believe it. I wonder this because the thought process is completely foreign to normal thinking. Almost as if a person with no brain tried to have a thought, then crapped on it, then shoved it threw a blender, threw up on it, then held it up as gold.

Everyone else can obviously see it is not gold and in fact it is something to be feared (and flushed), but there is no way to convince this tard that what is oozing between his fingers is NOT gold.

They refuse to see that which is killing them.

And, there are more and more of them every year.
#11 Bennauro 27-Dec-2007
Funny indeed! On 17 December I wrote a post on this gentleman from Bi'lin...!!!
http://www.debsocialclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2901#p50337
#12 Big Daddy 27-Dec-2007
How do YOU relate to anything? Your post shows you to be a moron of the lowest order. Evil Christian conservatives? Who? Name one? In the past 50 years name one evil act done in the name of Christianity? Or extreme Jewishness? Oh wait, defending ourselves is extreme madness, right?

Idiot
#13 captainfish 27-Dec-2007
Before evil responds to you Big Daddy, I thought I might.'

The sign of any true religion is one that can pull itself back from problems that arise. Or better yet, one that never descends into something it was never meant to.

Yes, the Christian religion had problems. Just like the Dark Ages, the Christian religion went through a dark age where the church leaders believed in forced conversions. However, once the masses of its members started reading the bible and learning the true meaning of Christ's message, there was a revival. Christianity returned to its roots of just spreading its message along with love, peace and freedom.

The Jewish religion I don't think ever went through a period of decline morally. Yes, people within the religion will decline and turn their hearts from GOD and the population as a whole will suffer from it, but the religion itself stayed as it was mandated from the beginning. There has never been a need for the masses to take the religion over from its leaders and say, "Stop acting contrary to our religion." Now, one can argue that those leaders of today who have turned their hearts and leadership away from their GOD IS IN FACT contrary to their religion. But I speak of killings, torture, death and the like.

Now, think of the religion of Islam. It started as a means to bring tribal people together to defeat the Hebrews and Jews, and then it evolved into a way of spreading death and terror across a land refusing to submit to the Islam religion. If the masses take the religion over and turn it toward peace, love and freedom, then Islam will be another true religion. However, that will never happen as this religion was developed by man for nefarious devices. Through the years it has grown ever more violent and murderous.

Therefore, again, answer Daddy's question. Actually, I will give you 200 years to find a person in the Jewish and Christian religion who was evil and yet presented themselves as leaders in that religion, and who had followers?

Give us a chance and we could fill a page with the number of Islamists who speak for the masses, has followers and are true EVIL. For a hint at where we would go to get some of our info, go to the UN's (and if you are bold enough) and USA's terrorist/group watch list. See any Christians or Jews on there?!?!?!?

Now, go read and learn something.
#14 jay 27-Dec-2007
Great, a new character: Islamic Rage Man! I'll write him into the story lines for the Islamic Rage Boy sitcom I'm shopping around to the networks
#15 JayInMd 27-Dec-2007
I'd be willing to bet that all those photos were taken at the same time. Then as the need arose, the photo editor tok out the file, grabbed a "new" photo and voila.

And as for ant evil.. How ofetn do palestnians or arabs suffer at ther own hands? Fatah v. Hamas. Hamas v. Hezbollah. Sudanese arabs still engaging in the slave trade today. Oh, that's right, liberals don't care about the real truth only their made up faux realities to justif their own stupidity.
#16 SouthParkConservative 27-Dec-2007
RE: #10

Thanks, captainfish. It's infuriating sometimes that these willfully ignorant people refuse to see that they would be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot if the Islamists were to sieze power in their country of origin.

Islamofascists make Christian conservatives look like a 1980's metal band on a cocaine, booze and hooker bender.
#17 miriam 27-Dec-2007
Has anyone considered the idea that the man's shorts might be too tight?
#18 Aussie Dave 28-Dec-2007
There were others that noticed the Olmos connection before me?
#19 steve 28-Dec-2007
Anti Free market madness WTF?????

What? someone can not be involved and committed in protesting the treatment of the occupiers. if they put them selves out there on the front of the police lines over and over they are a plant?

Is that what you think of M. L. King? his image was everywhere of the civil rights movement. a professional protester?
#20 SouthParkConservative 28-Dec-2007
Bah. steve, you are practicing the worst form of moral equivalency. There is a VAST difference between a legitimate civil rights protester and this asshat, who goes out of his way to get put on camera for propaganda shots to further the cause of the terrorists that run Gaza right now. MLK didn't advocate sending _children_ into crowded areas with bombs strapped to them, and having them detonate themselves. That is NOT legitimate resistance. That is evil, any way you slice it. If you fail to recognize that, then you're either blinded by liberalism or you're siding with evil deliberately.

And "occupiers"? Of what? Israel hasn't actually been occupying Gaza fully militarily for a while now. And what did those throwbacks do the moment that Israel pulled out? Hamas and Fatah started killing each other and driving the Christians (and all other non-Muslims) out of Bethlehem. Israel has capitulated again and again to these neanderthals, in the vain hope that this time appeasement will stop the random missle attacks on their northern towns, like Sderot, and the suicide bombing attempts on their civilian populace. To date, ALL such attempts have failed.

Palestinians, like most radical islamists, won't _ever_ recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. Their stated goal is to drive the Jew into the sea. They will accept nothing less than a Middle East which is totally Judenfrei.

Israel left them settlements full of buildings, infrastructure and working greenhouses, which were utterly disregarded, by the throwbacks; some were deliberately burned down. After all, the ebil JOOOS must've done something to taint the greenhouses. Because they are definitely responsible for all the wrongs that the Palestinians suffer, even though they suffer the vast majority of those wrongs at the hands of fellow Palestinians.

Every day, these animals kill more of each other and scream their hatred of anyone who isn't them at the cameras of a greedy, hungry MSM that's eager to do whatever it takes to denigrate the US and Israel, for the sake of pleasing the bleeding heart liberal establishment that's slowly eroding my country from within.

Palestine was much more peaceful, and more human dignity and rights existed for the citizens, when Israel was in charge of the whole region militarily. At least then Hamas and Fatah weren't shooting at each other in the streets and throwing each other off building tops; the IDF found that rather distasteful, and tended to control such behaviour.
#21 Enough Already 28-Dec-2007
'Little Boy'
+ 24°28'N 39°36'E
+ 'Fat Man'
+ 24°28'N 39°36'E
= Problem solved
#22 Brian C. Ledbetter 28-Dec-2007
Aussie Dave,

I don't know who observed the resemblance first, but I heard it from Yiddish Steel the earliest. I think a handful of LGF commenters pointed it out, too. :)

Regards,
Brian
#23 Aussie Dave 28-Dec-2007
I guess great minds think alike!

http://www.israellycool.com/2007/12/15/separated-at-birth-199/
#24 Gibby Haynes 28-Dec-2007
He may be an angry, hate-filled, genocidal nutjob/Palestinian, but he sure does have a nice hairdo. He looks like a sort of hybrid of Edward James Olmos, Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin and that present my dog left for me on the lawn.
'Waa-waa-waa, the Jews took the land we sold to them, and then had the audacity to not roll over and die when we all got together to try to wipe them out. Not fair. I didn't know we were playing for keeps, waa-waa-waa. Fire up the ovens!'
#25 tr1gg3r 28-Dec-2007
In response to the ignorant banter, that is trying to be masked as some sort of support to the Israeli cause.

@SouthParkConservative
"If the Palestinians want peace so badly, they should stop firing missiles at random into northern Israel, stop acting like terrorists, and start accepting the existence of Israel, instead of ignoring the real authors of their woes; the other Arab countries in the region who wanted nothing to do with ANY of the refugees from the 2 wars that the Arab world waged against Israel."

Are you talking about the Qassam rockets? How ignorant you really are. They are not missiles moron, actually they lack any form of guidance system whatsoever. However the IOF helicopters flying over the west bank drop (actual) missiles regularly.

One such incident, they fired one at a so called terrorist general blowing up his car with him in it. After a few minutes, there was a crowd of about 50-60 surrounding the car that was blown up. The IOF decide it would be fun if they dropped another, just to make sure they killed as many "potential terrorists" as they could. Killing innocent civilian bystanders, who were trying to help the casualties.

Now to Define Terrorism:

Terrorism:
(a) Act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; specify: the system of the Reign of Terror. (b) A mode of governing, or of opposing government, by intimidation. (c) Any policy of intimidation.

Let me ask you this: What constitutes a terrorist? Someone who has lost their home to IOF bulldozer, who justified it by saying "so called terrorists could use it as a hiding place". This guy gets a home made rocket and shoots it at the armed military Israeli forces surrounding the west bank, and he is deemed a terrorist.

Meanwhile the watchtowers use their machine guns at random to shoot over the heads of people living in the west bank, instilling fear in the people.
Their bullets ricocheting off houses and killing innocent (not military) victims. Would not that be considered terrorism?

At least the so called Palestinian terrorists are aiming at the IOF with their rockets as opposed to civilians or activists.

An American peace activist, Rachel Corrie, was crushed to death by an IOF bulldozer; a British peace protester was shot in the head by an IOF sniper and remains in a coma; and a British cameraman was shot dead by the IOF.

Within hours of arriving Sandra and Rodrigo are shot at and tear-gassed by Israeli troops breaking up a memorial service for Rachel Corrie, an American peace activist crushed by an Israeli Army bulldozer before.

IT WAS A MEMORIAL SERVICE!!!!

You know, I personally just found out for myself the human rights atrocities that are going on in that part of the world. Listening to the Zionist side of the arguments only reiterates my convictions regarding this conflict.

Everyone participating on this board has shown no regard for the suffering of their fellow man

Instead you choose to mock someone who has probably seen more and lost more in his life than you people could even imagine. You sicken me, it’s pathetic.

Nothing you can say can change the fact that the people in Palestine are in a fucked up state.

You can sit here in you suburban neighborhoods, drink you "fair trade coffee" and crack jokes at someone who is trying to end the violence.

IT’S NOT PALESTINE KILLING PALESTINE IT’S THE IOF...

I love how you have turned this dispute into a Muslim vs. everyone ordeal where it is not. This is about the sick Israeli government oppressing a people soo much that they have no choice but to get out.

You state that Palestine will never accept a sovereign Israeli nation. Israel won't accept a sovereign Palestian nation; they won’t rest until they have amalgamated all the land, taken over the west bank, and the Gaza strip. Yes, Israel withdrew the Gaza strip but only after immense pressure from the rest of the world. Of course, the us/Israeli influence on the media, this was portrayed this as some sort of godly act.
This is how it actually went down:

Only 1800 households were ever evacuated. A drop in the bucket compared to all the illegal settlements in Palestine.

The average family got about $250,000 (£140,000) compensation, depending on house size, the number of children and length of residence in the occupied territories. This was paid out by of course, the United States.

On top of that there are removals expenses, two years' free rent, redundancy compensation and what Mr Altman calls a "bonus" of $30,000 if the family stays put in a community being established to house them.

Farmers could receive an extra amount for leaving the land they have worked, that under a complex calculation could increase the sum to $400,000.

So in summary, Israel gives the west bank over to the Palestinians, the settlers get paid enormously for doing so. Meanwhile, when Israeli IOF bulldozers come to demolish a Palestinian house in the "conflict zone", which is actually Palestinian land, that person gets no compensation.

How about giving back all the illegally occupied land that Israel took from Palestine.

Argue with me all you want, you can’t argue the fact that there are illegal Jewish settlements everywhere in that region.

Hell, the 2003 peace plan "the roadmap" was reinstated in November 2007. In that meeting Israel was supposed to stop all settlement activity. So what do they do? One month later, they build 740 new homes in East Jerusalem. I love how the Israeli government is trying so hard to make this peace process work.

Unfortunately, they will never win this, and the people of the world (thanks to the internet). Are finally starting to understand what is really going on there. They cannot control the media any more; lying by omission is a thing of the past...

@daddy fish
"Therefore, again, answer Daddy's question. Actually, I will give you 200 years to find a person in the Jewish and Christian religion who was evil and yet presented themselves as leaders in that religion, and who had followers?"

Itamar Ben Gvir is one of the leaders of the outlawed Kach Movement (search) — followers of the radical Rabbi Meir Kahane. The posters in their office call for expelling the Arabs from Israel. This Jewish group with an office in downtown Jerusalem is listed both in Israel and the United States as a terror group.

A cache of weapons discovered hidden in caves in the West Bank has raised extra alarm bells among Israel's internal intelligence service because the terrorists are Jewish extremists.
(Source Fox News)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129014,00.html

With regard to Christian’s being evil, need I mention all counts of sexual abuse scandals that have plagued the Catholic Church over the last 100 years? No, that isn't evil at all.

@Big Daddy
"In the past 50 years name one evil act done in the name of Christianity? Or extreme Jewishness? Oh wait, defending ourselves is extreme madness, right?"

Let’s touch on the subject of defending yourselves, because even that concept is flawed. First off, Palestinian land is the one being occupied (the Gaza strip and the west bank), not Israeli. Being the occupiers, Israeli's are the aggressors, while Palestinians are defending their land. I know this is hard for some of you to grasp, so I will type this real slow for you.... I.s.r.e.a.l i.s n.o.t d.e.f.e.n.d.i.n.g i.t.s.e.l.f, p.a.l.e.s.t.i.n.e i.s.

As occupiers it is Israel’s responsibility for the well being of the people of Palestine.

Here is some reading for ya:
International law: fourth Geneva Convention
(Laws governing occupation)

Do you guys remember the when Israeli forces adopted the "break the bones strategy?"
Oh yeah, that was strictly defense. You had to break people’s bones to a pulp with a rock because... you had no other choice? (I dunno, i'm still trying to figure this one out.)

Four Palestinians die for every one Israeli,
Stats since 09-29-2000 - Today:

4345 Palestinian Deaths
1027 Israeli Deaths

(Please write a conclusion)

in conclusion, before you ignorant Muslim bashing, racist losers decide to call me a "anti-Semitic nutbar". There is a difference between anti- Semitism, and anti-Zionism. I am not anti-Semitic. On the contrary, as a whole I rather like the Jewish community, and would never stereotype any group, because of the uneducated ramblings of a select few. I suggest you do a little research before posting any more comments on your little hate board.

Your Christian brotha,
tr1gg3r

KTHXBI
#26 James 28-Dec-2007
Wow - ignorant AND inconsistent and with a l33t h4x0r handle to boot. Nice going tr1gg3r. Let's examine just a few of your pearls of wisdom:

1) "are not missiles moron, actually they lack any form of guidance system whatsoever." but then "At least the so called Palestinian terrorists are aiming at the IOF with their rockets"
So which is it, idiot? Actually the rockets are launched and clumsily aimed at civilian cities in Israel. A little research would;ve shown you how rarely rockets hit Israeli military and how often they hit schools. And incidentally, are you saying that you have no problem with me throwing rocks at your face as long as they dont have a 'guidance system'?

"Let me ask you this: What constitutes a terrorist? Someone who has lost their home to IOF bulldozer, who justified it by saying "so called terrorists could use it as a hiding place". This guy gets a home made rocket and shoots it at the armed military Israeli forces surrounding the west bank, and he is deemed a terrorist."
So just to be clear - in your mind taking someone's home is terrorism, whereas taking someone's life is not? You must be from southern california.

"So in summary, Israel gives the west bank over to the Palestinians"
Look it up, moron. Israel gave back GAZA.
"Palestinian land is the one being occupied (the Gaza strip and the west bank), "
but didnt you just say Israel gave back the 'west bank'? And yet you then make the claim that Israel wants to expand its territory to include the west bank and gaza? Oh man thats going to be an awkward moment: "You gave them Gaza? No you fool, I said annex the west bank!"

If you want to know why the wall is needed in Israel I'll let the Palestinians explain their feelings themselves:
http://www.pmw.org.il/
#27 steve2 28-Dec-2007
Yes morons, It's never Israel's fault. EVER.

If you think it is, you will be called a anti-semite.

If you point out that you will be called a anti-semite, you will be called a moonbat or asshat or some lame term used heavily in the comment sections of sites like LGF.

Many who frequent these sites know the exact recipe for fake rage, fake protests, manufacturing drama and hysteria. They have been at it for a looong time and this is exactly how they can figure out when others perpetrate it.

It's funny when I read these highly manipulative folks point out the same tactics they have been using for hundreds of years.

Just ask yourself this:

If there is a group of people that is negatively targeted by countless different countries, races and creeds for thousands of years.. even before the death of Christ.. Why are they being targeted, and who is ultimately at fault?
#28 SouthParkConservative 28-Dec-2007
I'm going to address your concerns one at a time, tr1gg3r. And since you claim to be more educated than I, I’m not going to bother using small words.

*"Are you talking about the Qassam rockets? How ignorant you really are. They are not missiles moron, actually they lack any form of guidance system whatsoever. However the IOF helicopters flying over the west bank drop (actual) missiles regularly."*

Rockets. Missiles. Apples. Oranges. They both kill people. As for the IDF comment. Prove it. Show me non-doctored pictures of the IDF carrying out raids even as we speak where they indiscriminately bomb civilian sites.

*"One such incident, they fired one at a so called terrorist general blowing up his car with him in it. After a few minutes, there was a crowd of about 50-60 surrounding the car that was blown up. The IOF decide it would be fun if they dropped another, just to make sure they killed as many "potential terrorists" as they could. Killing innocent civilian bystanders, who were trying to help the casualties."*

Links? Proof of this? I call BS and blood libel until I see it. Once again, it is the Palestinians of Hamas/Fatah that are shooting _rockets_ at Israeli civilian centers indiscriminately. That has been proven again and again, and is well documented. The atrocities you're claiming that are happening? Not a word is spoken about them in ANY sort of media other than the obsessed conspiracy theory that passes for news in the Middle East.

*"Let me ask you this: What constitutes a terrorist? Someone who has lost their home to IOF bulldozer, who justified it by saying "so called terrorists could use it as a hiding place". This guy gets a home made rocket and shoots it at the armed military Israeli forces surrounding the west bank, and he is deemed a terrorist."*

They're not shooting at army targets. They are shooting at _civilian_ _population_ _centers_. Schools. Hospitals. etc. Again, all of this is well documented online. I would also state that teaching your children to love death more than life and strap a bomb to their chest to take out the dirty, evil JOOO is a prime example of terrorist behavior in the extreme. Using children to further your own sadistic ends is evil, no matter what you say about it, and you are siding with evil in this case.

And, to date, there have been over 10262 terrorist attacks performed _BY MUSLIMS_ since 9/11/01. Most of their thousands of victims have been fellow Muslims, but a few have gotten what they wanted and killed some dirty kaffir as well. This November alone, there were 203 jihad attacks in 13 countries against 5 separate religious groups, killing 1138 and critically injuring 1358. All of this is also well documented. And we aren't the ones linking it to their faith; they are.

*"Meanwhile the watchtowers use their machine guns at random to shoot over the heads of people living in the west bank, instilling fear in the people.
Their bullets ricocheting off houses and killing innocent (not military) victims. Would not that be considered terrorism?

At least the so called Palestinian terrorists are aiming at the IOF with their rockets as opposed to civilians or activists."*

Links? Proof? Or is this just another Al Durrah blood libel BS story?

*"An American peace activist, Rachel Corrie, was crushed to death by an IOF bulldozer; a British peace protester was shot in the head by an IOF sniper and remains in a coma; and a British cameraman was shot dead by the IOF.

Within hours of arriving Sandra and Rodrigo are shot at and tear-gassed by Israeli troops breaking up a memorial service for Rachel Corrie, an American peace activist crushed by an Israeli Army bulldozer before.

IT WAS A MEMORIAL SERVICE!!!!

You know, I personally just found out for myself the human rights atrocities that are going on in that part of the world. Listening to the Zionist side of the arguments only reiterates my convictions regarding this conflict."*

Links? Proof? From more than just a Leftist or pro-Palestinian website?

*"You know, I personally just found out for myself the human rights atrocities that are going on in that part of the world. Listening to the Zionist side of the arguments only reiterates my convictions regarding this conflict.

Everyone participating on this board has shown no regard for the suffering of their fellow man

Instead you choose to mock someone who has probably seen more and lost more in his life than you people could even imagine. You sicken me, it’s pathetic.

Nothing you can say can change the fact that the people in Palestine are in a fucked up state.

You can sit here in you suburban neighborhoods, drink you "fair trade coffee" and crack jokes at someone who is trying to end the violence."*

How did you just "personally" find out about the terrible human rights violations? And, for the record, we're not mocking a "courageous" protestor. We're pointing out a shill for the terrorists who are running that "fucked up state" into the ground with their little petty war they have going on between themselves, Fatah, and the IDF. It is Palestinian killing Palestinian over there; their own political party heads are saying it on international news channels, including Al Jazeerah. Hamas and Fatah have hated each other since the movements first splintered. They don't hide their feelings; they scream them out from the rooftops and the streets to anyone who will listen.

Also, this guy doesn't look like he's trying to "end the violence". He looks like he's trying to pick a fight. He ain't exactly holding flowers and singing kumbayah to the soldiers standing in front of him. If I had a guy in my face like that in real life, he'd be laid out on the ground before he got the second word out.

*"You state that Palestine will never accept a sovereign Israeli nation. Israel won't accept a sovereign Palestinian nation; they won’t rest until they have amalgamated all the land, taken over the west bank, and the Gaza strip. Yes, Israel withdrew the Gaza strip but only after immense pressure from the rest of the world. Of course, the us/Israeli influence on the media, this was portrayed this as some sort of godly act."*

Israel shouldn't recognize Palestine as a state until they start acting like they deserve one, instead of like homicidal brats in a small schoolyard. Real states don't have political parties in charge that throw one another off of rooftops.

A little information for you.

Ever since Sinai, a pattern has been established:

1. Israel is attacked.
2. Israel defends itself.
3. The UN or other international group steps in to end the violence, calling for both sides to take certain actions to resolve the situation.
4. Israel attempts to comply but the intransigence and non-compliance of Israel's enemies delays implementation.
5. Israel is blamed for failing to comply while the failures of Israel's enemies are ignored.

This pattern repeats over the decades: Sinai, 1967 war, 1973 war, Lebanon, and in 2002 with regard to Israeli actions in the territories, actions taken in reaction to a wave of homicide bombings in Israel.

Israel has given in to their demands under international pressure, its true. But it hasn't helped the situation; it has only exacerbated it. Because the true demands and desires of the Palestinian (and, by proxy, the Arab world) equate to a Judenfrei Palestine that encompasses all of Israel, with Jerusalem at its capital.

It was a suicidal mistake for Israel to ever give those lands back. The Palestinians took said lands and immediately began launching Quassam rockets at Sderot and other northern Israeli settlements.

The amount of lands that Palestinians have claimed to have "stolen" from them after Israel even started equals more than the total acreage of Palestine. A good portion (if not all) of those land claims are bullshit.

The Jews bought and paid for that land, which was originally granted to them by international mandate in 1920. The actual legal amount of land granted was about 10 times the size of Israel today. It was sold to them by the countries that legally held the land at the time. The Palestinians' plight is more the fault of the Arab governments who wanted NOTHING to do with the refugees of the wars they fought with Israel. It was better and more politically expedient for said governments to create a "human rights" situation exactly like the one that is playing out today, where bleeding hearts like you would cry for the Palestinians and blame Israel for their plight.

Again, it amazes me that "Liberals" such as yourself really have no clue whatsoever how the real world works. These people are not legitimate resistance. They are terrorists. They recently voted for Hitler as a role model for their people on their national radio station. They have horrible, indoctrinating TV shows that encourage children, through use of cartoon-like characters and other children, to engage in violent, often suicidal jihad; not just against Israel, but against the West as well. They use babies to blow up soldiers. They love the death of their enemies (of which you are one as well, make no mistake; Islam is not the most liberal of religious traditions) more than they love the lives of their children.

That is morally reprehensible, evil, and wrong to any sane thinking person, and siding with that which is evil makes me even question, as an informed agnostic, whether or not you know what Christianity truly is.

People like you tend to make the problem much worse for those Muslims who really do only want to live in peace with us; by your encouragement of these nutjob fanatics, you are only making their voices more stridently heard, and giving them more socio/political power, while silencing the voices of those screaming for the reform of their faith from within. You are encouraging the spread of the jihad ideology, and in so doing, dooming the truly peaceful and moderate members of the Muslim faith to the edge of subjugation and extinction. By refusing to call a spade a spade, and a terrorist a terrorist, you lend validation to the abominations and brutal crimes against humanity the extremists perpetrate in the name of Allah.

But then again, your rant doesn't really surprise me. Hardcore Liberalism is a form of Peter Pan insanity at its core, with a refusal to see that there is in fact evil in the world, and neither Israel nor the West are the perpetrators. Liberals would rather believe that everyone wants rainbows and puppy dogs, and that there isn't evil in the world, just "different thought". That's not the way the grown up world works; the idea of "live and let live" doesn't exist for Islamofascists. That particular concept of personal choice and freedom is distinctly Western in nature.

I said it before, and I will say it again. Israel is _the only liberal Western democracy in the entire region_. It is the ONLY place in that area where people who are enemies of the state _hold seats in the government_ of said state. All of the rest are run by petty dictators, backwards Luddite asshat jihadists, oil-rich princes, kings and mullahs who care more about lining their pocketbooks and shouting "Death to America/Israel" than the basic needs of their people. These are the same throwbacks that recently sentenced a gang rape victim to _200 lashes and over a month in jail_ for the crime of being with an unrelated man (Our good friends the Saudis). They hang homosexuals for being homosexual (Iran). They behead or hang those who leave Islam, as they are considered apostates (Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, et. al.) They have a religious sanction to beat their women, and treat them as second class citizens. They perform honor killings, and have imported that horrible practice to the countries they have immigrated to. And you want to empathize with people who are of a similar, evil, 7th century mindset?

*"With regard to Christian’s being evil, need I mention all counts of sexual abuse scandals that have plagued the Catholic Church over the last 100 years? No, that isn't evil at all."*

Nobody said that the sexual abuse and horrible misuse of power by a few deviants in the Catholic Church isn't evil. But to engage in a tu quoque (or "you too") argument in this situation is disingenuous at best, and ignores the glaringly obvious fact that the Catholic Church, as a whole, once made aware of the horrible abuses of power that were going on in some of their parishes, decried such behavior as evil. These pedophile priests that everyone on the Left is so fond of bringing up _are not being praised as holy_ by the Church, they are being vilified by the parishioners and the Church leadership.

Shaheed (martyrs) are considered to hold the highest places in heaven according to the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, whether you read Ibn Ashaq or Tabari translations. Their society and religion glorifies them. Imams at mosques across the world spew venomous hatred from their pulpits of such a vile nature as to make a Neo-Nazi say, "Dude, chill!". They teach their children to hate and fear the other; that they will see paradise if they kill a Jew in the name of Allah. All this is tacitly accepted by a good portion of the Muslim population as truth and fact, because to do otherwise is to "question the will of Allah" and be branded a takfir/apostate, and risk a death sentence. To date, the outcry from the moderate Muslim population about these facts has been non-existent, except for a very few voices, who, due to their statements that Islam needs reform, have been branded as heretics and had death sentences and fatwas issued against them by the Islamic ummah.

Islam as a whole has killed more people in its 1500+ years of existence than Christianity could ever have hoped to. Except Christianity doesn't hope for violence. As bad as Christianity was in the past, Islam is much, much worse _in the present_. It is getting more violent, not less. There has been no Martin Luther for the Muslims. There has been no peaceful reformation movement, past or present, that swept through and changed Islam from a violent, bigoted faith; the only reformation going on is a regression to the 7th century, as espoused by the Wahabbis, and silently approved of by a large portion of the Muslim population in the Middle East and North Africa.

As for your snarky lack of education comment, grow up and stop using ad hominem attacks against people, instead of attempting to engage in intelligent discourse. They don't prove your point, they only make you look foolish. I am well educated, and have studied the Middle East, as well as read the Qur'an. I have also read the Hadith that are most widely accepted as truth by most schools of Islamic jurisprudence today, and have seen all of the verses that the Islamofascists use to justify their horrific actions. I also have read, in their entirety, the Hamas, PLO and Fatah charters. Have you?

If you aren't entirely close minded, as I have found most liberals to be, I'd actually suggest you read the following website; it has more real information than most any of the ones that you are quoting from:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/

If you are as close minded as I believe you to be, in closing:

I extend a similar invitation to you that I extended to anti-evil, if you live in the US. Move to Palestine, if you love them and their struggle so much. Live it for yourself; see the brutality they inflict not just in random violence towards Israel, but in random violence towards each other. Oh, and while you are there, try and indulge in some Western pursuits, like listening to music that isn't considered Halal. Or, if you are a woman, try showing a little leg. See how "tolerant" and "peaceful" they are with you.
#29 SouthParkConservative 28-Dec-2007
Oh noes! the Ebil JOOOS are at the head of a worldwide conspiracy! It started to come to a head when they threw themselves into the Nazi ovens at the concentration camps!!!!! That was part of their evil plan!

Take the tinfoil hat off, steve. Jews are less than 1% of the entire world population. To assume that they control it all is assinine.

Jews have been hated since time immemorial for pointing out to others that right is right, wrong is wrong, there is evil and good in the world, and a true human being follows the path of goodness.
#30 tr1gg3r 28-Dec-2007
@James

Your argument, as insightful as it is, could easily be mistaken for the ramblings of someone with down syndrome.

Why not actually address the issues I have stated in my rebuttal instead of taking quotes out of context. Its interesting to see how this seems to be a pattern when dealing with people who are pro-Israeli.

You try and discredit me and yet you haven’t touched any of the atrocities I have mentioned of the IOF? Why? Your attempt to discredit me will not be enough to win this one.

Now I'm going to address your concerns with my rebuttal.

( 1) "are not missiles moron, actually they lack any form of guidance system whatsoever." but then "At least the so called Palestinian terrorists are aiming at the IOF with their rockets"

So which is it, idiot? Actually the rockets are launched and clumsily aimed at civilian cities in Israel. A little research would;ve shown you how rarely rockets hit Israeli military and how often they hit schools. And incidentally, are you saying that you have no problem with me throwing rocks at your face as long as they don't have a 'guidance system'? )

A little research would have also shown you that the majority of rockets launched are not aimed at the civilian population, but rather at the IOF surrounding the west bank. A good example of this would be count how many civilian Israeli casualties there are vs military. You have your own answer.

Secondly, my confused lil friend, I was pointing out the fact that missiles and rockets are different to your colleague SouthParkConservative, who had stated. Read Below:

"If the Palestinians want peace so badly, they should stop firing missiles at random into northern Israel, stop acting like terrorists, and start accepting the existence of Israel, instead of ignoring the real authors of their woes; the other Arab countries in the region who wanted nothing to do with ANY of the refugees from the 2 wars that the Arab world waged against Israel."


( And incidentally, are you saying that you have no problem with me throwing rocks at your face as long as they don't have a 'guidance system'? )

^^^ that part of your argument makes no sense, its the kind of thing a bully who was beat by his dad would say to a kid in elementary school. Grow up!

Now on the next section of your banter:

"Let me ask you this: What constitutes a terrorist? Someone who has lost their home to IOF bulldozer, who justified it by saying "so called terrorists could use it as a hiding place". This guy gets a home made rocket and shoots it at the armed military Israeli forces surrounding the west bank, and he is deemed a terrorist."

So just to be clear - in your mind taking someone's home is terrorism, whereas taking someone's life is not? You must be from southern california.

Let me clear this up for you in terms your below average iq might be able to handle. If you read the rest of the rebuttal you would see that I was directly comparing a regular palestianian “act of terror”, with the ones that the IOF commit everyday. I state a few examples in my rebuttal. I'm not going to repeat them you can scroll up and reread i'm sure. (Its that half-circle thing on your mouse, just use your finger to move it up and down :) )

With regards to this:

"So in summary, Israel gives the west bank over to the Palestinians"

It was a typo, If you look earlier in the article I clearly state that it was Gaza, and reiterate it with the terms that they left.

So my small brained friend, please don’t reply to this. I don’t think I could handle having to explain anything else to you. On a bright note, I know some ESL classes you could enroll in, that might help you understand the English language :).

Oh and if for some stupid reason you do decide to make another post, please do it on a point by point basis. Cover all the basis, like I did yours. Thanks,

Your Chirstian brotha,
Tr1gg3r
#31 tr1gg3r 28-Dec-2007
SouthParkConservative:

I will get to you rebutal by tonight, have no fear. I enjoy educating the masses :)
#32 Aaron Selzer 28-Dec-2007
Your arguments are awesome. Do you reel those off the top of your head?

You do a serious diservice to yourself to label yourself a conservative. I would call you a realist, which is a far cry from our current conservative standard-bearers.

Aaron
#33 Brian C. Ledbetter 28-Dec-2007
steve2,

you're obviously trolling. -2 internets.

tr1gg3r,

I have no problems with letting you spout this kinda stuff here, but if you'd like to be more convincing at "educating the masses," you might want to provide some links to [i]actual[/i] documentary sources of information for your allegations. For the record, that does [i]not[/i] include the ISM.

Same goes for the rest of you scalawags—Documentation, documentation, documentation. If you don't have a credible source for what you're saying, you're not helping this conversation.

Carry on, y'all,

Regards,
Brian
#34 tr1gg3r 28-Dec-2007
Okay here are some proof/links that you want

I'll do it point for poing for ya:

[color=white]
Are you talking about the Qassam rockets? How ignorant you really are. They are not missiles moron, actually they lack any form of guidance system whatsoever. However the IOF helicopters flying over the west bank drop (actual) missiles regularly.

One such incident, they fired one at a so called terrorist general blowing up his car with him in it. After a few minutes, there was a crowd of about 50-60 surrounding the car that was blown up. The IOF decide it would be fun if they dropped another, just to make sure they killed as many "potential terrorists" as they could. Killing innocent civilian bystanders, who were trying to help the casualties "
[/color]
Source= Documentary: The killing zone http://tinyurl.com/2nol3t


[color=white]
Meanwhile the watchtowers use their machine guns at random to shoot over the heads of people living in the west bank, instilling fear in the people.
Their bullets ricocheting off houses and killing innocent (not military) victims. Would not that be considered terrorism?

At least the so called Palestinian terrorists are aiming at the IOF with their rockets as opposed to civilians or activists.
[/color]

Source= Documentary: The killing zone http://tinyurl.com/2nol3t

[color=white]
An American peace activist, Rachel Corrie, was crushed to death by an IOF bulldozer; a British peace protester was shot in the head by an IOF sniper and remains in a coma; and a British cameraman was shot dead by the IOF.

Within hours of arriving Sandra and Rodrigo are shot at and tear-gassed by Israeli troops breaking up a memorial service for Rachel Corrie, an American peace activist crushed by an Israeli Army bulldozer before.
[/color]

Sources=
Documentary: The killing zone http://tinyurl.com/2nol3t
&
Documentary: Occupation 101 http://tinyurl.com/2h99tr

[color=white]
Only 1800 households were ever evacuated. A drop in the bucket compared to all the illegal settlements in Palestine.

The average family got about $250,000 (£140,000) compensation, depending on house size, the number of children and length of residence in the occupied territories. This was paid out by of course, the United States.

On top of that there are removals expenses, two years' free rent, redundancy compensation and what Mr Altman calls a "bonus" of $30,000 if the family stays put in a community being established to house them.

Farmers could receive an extra amount for leaving the land they have worked, that under a complex calculation could increase the sum to $400,000.
[/color]

source= BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4151742.stm

[color=white]
Hell, the 2003 peace plan "the roadmap" was reinstated in November 2007. In that meeting Israel was supposed to stop all settlement activity. So what do they do? One month later, they build 740 new homes in East Jerusalem. I love how the Israeli government is trying so hard to make this peace process work.
[/color]
source= BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7158072.stm

[color=white]
Itamar Ben Gvir is one of the leaders of the outlawed Kach Movement (search) — followers of the radical Rabbi Meir Kahane. The posters in their office call for expelling the Arabs from Israel. This Jewish group with an office in downtown Jerusalem is listed both in Israel and the United States as a terror group.
[/color]
source= Foxnews: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129014,00.html
some more links to extremist jewish activity this one just 8 days ago
http://www.scottishpsc.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2003&Itemid=320

[color=white]
With regard to Christian’s being evil, need I mention all counts of sexual abuse scandals that have plagued the Catholic Church over the last 100 years? No, that isn't evil at all.
[/color]
I'm not even going to bother with this one
[color=white]
Let’s touch on the subject of defending yourselves, because even that concept is flawed. First off, Palestinian land is the one being occupied (the Gaza strip and the west bank), not Israeli. Being the occupiers, Israeli's are the aggressors, while Palestinians are defending their land. I know this is hard for some of you to grasp, so I will type this real slow for you.... I.s.r.e.a.l i.s n.o.t d.e.f.e.n.d.i.n.g i.t.s.e.l.f, p.a.l.e.s.t.i.n.e i.s.

As occupiers it is Israel’s responsibility for the well being of the people of Palestine.
[/color]
source= http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/geneva1.html
[color=white]
Do you guys remember the when Israeli forces adopted the "break the bones strategy?"
Oh yeah, that was strictly defense. You had to break people’s bones to a pulp with a rock because... you had no other choice? (I dunno, i'm still trying to figure this one out.)
[/color]
source=
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klMXpvOFuOQ
Documentary: Occupation 101 http://tinyurl.com/2h99tr

[color=white]
Four Palestinians die for every one Israeli,
Stats since 09-29-2000 - Today:

4345 Palestinian Deaths
1027 Israeli Deaths
[/color]
source= http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

Now lets talk about your so called reliable Source
www.palestinefacts.com. I have actually been to the site prior to our little session and was disgusted to find that they promote themselves as being a non-bias site.

Mind you this is just one of many sections on the site, i can find countless outhers

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_current_un_observers.php

Sources and additional reading on this topic:

The new quarantine of Israel
They will always favor the Palestinians
Israel and the United Nations
Why Israel rejects "observers"

Just by the sources, I can tell how tainted the site really is.
Now does those titles show a non biased opinion? You ask yourself.
#35 Brian C. Ledbetter 28-Dec-2007
Thanks, Trig—that's the type of documentation I was looking for. [i]Now[/i] there's something specific to debate! (I'll leave it the details up to the experts, of course... ;) )

I look forward to reading reactions/rebuttals, guys. Keep up the awesome work!

Regards,
Brian
#36 SouthParkConservative 28-Dec-2007
Re: #32 Aaron Selzer:

Thank you for the compliment. The opinions I have are part of an in depth study of the region and Islamic faith that I have been pursuing for about 7 years now, ever since the Towers fell.

That was a big wake up call for me; before then, I was more in tr1gg3r's general camp.

Now, as for Tr1gg3r.

I'll watch, get other documentation for you from the MSM and other sources, and post them later on this weekend. I'm going out of town tonight or tomorrow morning, and don't have the time to respond to you as I would like.

But as an aside, the missles/rockets misnomer is not one of the issues you should focus on, as it was a simple incorrect naming of two devices with the same general purpose.

Other than that, please reduce the general name calling tone of your posts; they tend to bring out the worst in people instead of promoting intelligent discourse and respect for your point of view.
#37 tr1gg3r 28-Dec-2007
@SouthParkConservative, the derogatory remarks/name calling was never actually directed towards you. It was in response to the Muslim bashing, racists remarks by everyone else.

I apologize for them, as they were in bad taste; Regardless, they do not weaken my argument by any means, the facts are still there

I accept your truce, and from here on in, I will conduct myself in a proper manner. I expect the same from the rest of you.
#38 tr1gg3r 29-Dec-2007
@SouthParkConservative
Oh and BTW, you didn't actually give me a rebuttal on myargument. lol
Instead you decided to try and discredit it by calling it all hearsay. Before you start talking about other aspects of the conflict... At least come up with a argument countering mine, instead of just trying to discredit, like I've seen soo many pro-Israeli's do in their debates. A perfect example of this would be the Chomsky vs. Dershowitz debate, what a joke, that was Dershowitz whole strategy, trying to discredit Chomsky, lol good luck.
#39 Soccer Dad 30-Dec-2007
InstaCarnival Beta Draft HTML for Carnival Edition http://blogcarnival.com/bc/spreview_16766.html --> The next few lines insert the BlogCarnival LogoLink for the December 30, 2007 edition of "haveil havalim" here. Presence of the BlogCarnival LogoLink allows this carnival edition to be listed at blogcarnival.com. This example puts it in the upper right corner, but it can go anywhere in the blog post. --> Welcome to the 147th edition of haveil havalim. Contents Culture Torah Israel Antisemitism History Personal Politics Judaism Culture Seraphic Secret writes an appreciation of the great choreographer Michael Kidd: Baruch Dayan Ha-Emet. Books and Beliefs presents Help Write a...
#40 busywolf 01-Jan-2008
Dear Brian,

Being quoted by someone who gets quoted by lgf is really beyond my wildest dreams and most optimistic expectations as far as blogging is concerned. For that I thank you.
Now let's get down to business: the Palestinian (out)rage boy.
Indeed, I did not retain the captions and dates of the pics I chose for my post because I was not looking for the RageBoy's debut.
However, being quoted by such high authorities, I thought a bit more rigorous digging would be in order(just a bit, mind you, no extensive research here) and this is what I've come up with.
Firstly, the Bilin marches started about 2 and a half years ago. As with all genuine things Arab/Palestinian, you can never know what really transpired, because they simply never tell the truth. That is why, on their own site: http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/2007/04/27/april-27-bilin/ (theirs and the ism's) on May 27, 2007, they claim to have started their marches 26 months previously, yet when attempting to access the first post on Bilin, one gets redirected to a video dated Friday 28 December 2008 (???), I kid you not: http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/category/video/.
Secondly, there seems to be some mix up, since there are two RageBoys: please notice that the man in pic. 15 is not the same man as in pic. 16. In fact, the duo were immortalized here:
http://www.bilin-village.org/francais/xmedia/photos_manifs/manif_0644.jpg.
The one on the right is also the one teaching the little girl that she can abuse, insult, defy or just blow her stinking breath down an unsuspecting Israeli soldier's neck (as seen in my own collection) and be awarded for it by the MSM and their audience.
These two kommissars seem to be part of the abu rahme (or rahma) hamoula (clan/tribe) and I have found five of them, by name only: Abdullah, Adeeb, Rateb, Nasser and Ayed. Who is who and which is which? And does it matter?

Thank you and God bless! Happy New Year, everyone!
#41 Brian C. Ledbetter 01-Jan-2008
Busywolf,

Thanks alot for providing all of that detail! It's very interesting to see!

I was a bit iffy on whether #15 was the same guy or not, but included it "just in case." Thanks for pointing out my error—I've removed that particular picture from the collection, since my main focus is on the [i]angrier[/i] Rageman of the two.

The original picture is here for those of you who have not seen it.

Thank you for sending the names along, too—I will definitely see about passing them on to my photographer acquaintances to see if they can track him down for more info. We'll see if I can get anywhere with that or not. It'd definitely be interesting to hear more "details" about the land he's supposedly lost to the Israeli defence barrier.

I look forward to reading your blog more regularly! Keep up the great work!

Regards,
Brian "Not A Details Guy" L.
#42 busywolf 02-Jan-2008
Brian, thanks again.

I shouldn't worry too much, I mean the guys do look like twins or clones. But you're right, The Outrage Boy does look more outraged. Rabid, in fact. Last night I forgot to mention that
they call him the Palestinian Gandhi.
What more can one say?

See you soon and God bless!

Busywolf
#43 SouthParkConservative 02-Jan-2008
K. Just got back from my trip. I'll get to your answer tomorrow, tr1gg3r. As for rebuttals...

I actually did rebut several of your arguments that I didn't feel the need to ask for proof for. If you read the remaining 2/3rds of my post to you where I didn't ask for verification, I offer several rebuttals to points you brought up.

Perhaps I haven't gotten the main thrust of your argument; if you could re-state it clearly and concisely, it would be easier to rebut.
#44 busywolf 03-Jan-2008
Brian,

A bit more research revealed (out)Rage Boy's identity: Adeeb abu-Rahme. And sorry, but the Palestinian Gandhi
seems to be Abdullah abu-Rahme whose picture I haven't found, but I'm working on it.
To confirm Adeeb, please access
http://joeskillet.livejournal.com/tag/west+bank, scroll down to almost bottom of the page, and right underneath Azmi Bishara's pic, there's a somewhat less angry.
The story of their lost lands is pretty much summed up here:
http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/2007/11/17/2805/
#45 tr1gg3r 03-Jan-2008
@southparkconservist
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"The amount of lands that Palestinians have claimed to have "stolen" from them after Israel even started equals more than the total acreage of Palestine. A good portion (if not all) of those land claims are bullshit."
[/color]

Another article regarding illigal israeli settlements

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/story-010108174759.htm

source:
Janine Roberts investigative features have been widely published in the major Australian newspapers as well as in the Independent and Financial Times in the UK. Her investigative film "the Diamond Empire" was shown on Frontline WGBH in the USA and on the BBC - it was researched partly in Israel.
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