The Ghost of Snapped Shot

Or, welcome to my low-maintenance heck.

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In Which I Use Your Words Against You

Back on Monday, our good friend Noz made an observation regarding the accuracy of certain sources on the internet in the midst of a brief discussion surrounding the imminent collapse of the Israeli-Hamas ceasefire:

one thing you should always be suspicious of are articles in english that pepper their writing with arabic words. it's often an attempt to take a concept that exists in english and make it seem sinister and foreign by using an alien term. and, in my experience, they're always used in incredibly misleading ways. so, for example, "tahdiya" and "hudna" are often used as synonyms. but because some hamas officials have used the word "tahdiya" to refer to the agreement on some occasions, that leads rightwing commentators to claim the agreement is something less than a ceasefire. never mind that other hamas officials, or sometimes the same ones at different times, have used the word "hudna".


Noz says that we dastardly conservatives misrepresent the situation when stating that cease-fire agreements (be they called "hudna" or "tahdiya") are merely used as excuses for Muslim terrorists to arm themselves—Which is generally different than the Western interpretation of what a cease-fire is considered to be.

Lo and behold, upon the collapse of this latest Hamas ceasefire, we learn from Al Jazeera (no less—h/t Soccer Dad):

Palestinian group Hamas has declared that the six-month ceasefire between Israel and the Gaza Strip is over.

The ceasefire officially ended at daybreak in Gaza on Friday and came after armed Palestinian groups admitted that they had been using the truce to train and better arm themselves.

...

Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from Gaza, said some of the armed Palestinian factions had used the calm to better train and equip themselves, saying not only had their resolve grown stronger, but their weapons had as well.

Mohyeldin said longer range rockets, heavier machine guns and more accurate firing systems have all been acquired, according to the armed groups . . .


Reality sure has a strange way of intruding, doesn't it?

  #Intifada


Comments:

#1 Steamboat McGoo 19-Dec-2008
Now, now, Brian - noz will be here any second to explain where your simple little Rethuglican mind went astray.

Things are not what they seem.

Ya see, he'll simply redefine a word here and a phrase there (while simultaneously avoiding the crassness of stating this explicitly) and - poof! - objective reality will change the world over to conform with his newly modified, over-arching meta-narrative!

Here he is! ........
....
Noz? ....

*cricket chirping*

Hmmm ...
#2 Kevin 20-Dec-2008
Side-note about cease-fires: They are ALWAYS used to re-arm. Remember how stunned and happy the North Vietnamese were every time a cease-fire was declared?

Cease-fires are worse than open hostilities, imo, because all they do is postpone the inevitable war to a time where it can be more destructive.
#3 Cletus 20-Dec-2008
Something that I'm sure we all know is that the lefties swarm around bleating and squaking to no end, until someone comes in with factual evidence, at which time they crawl back into their holes and shut their mouths.
#4 upyernoz 20-Dec-2008
i think, once again, you've missed my point. i've never said that hamas (or anyone else) never broke a ceasefire. both israel and hamas have broken a ton of them. nor have i said that hamas (and israel, and other palestinian groups) have never taken advantage of a ceasefire to rearm or retrench or re-whatever. again, both israel and palestinian groups regularly use ceasefires for that.

my point was that a lot of rightwingers pepper their discussions about the middle-east with arabic words in an attempt to make it seem like when arabs agree to a ceasefire they aren't really agreeing to one, they're agreeing to a "tahdiya" or "hudna" (even though both words, in fact, mean "ceasefire"). in other words, i wasn't claiming that arabs are any better at honoring ceasefires than anyone else (on the contrary, most ceasefires around the world end up being violated), but rather that the inclination to use drop arabic words when there is an english equivalent into a discussion about the problem often makes the writer look ignorant to someone who actually understands arabic.

you'll note that the israelis also speak a language different than english, and yet i don't see the hebrew equivalent to "ceasefire" being used in the same way as the arabic word often is.

put another way, my point is about people commenting about the situation, the situation itself. get it?

but i appreciate that you used the english word "ceasefire" in your post. so maybe you did get my point at some level.
#5 captainfish 20-Dec-2008
that is because Israel does its best to abide by cease-fires as its government and people are based on laws and morals.

The same can not be said for Pallies.

Besides, Hamas has not held up to the Ceasefire anyway with its constant attacks on Israel.
#6 upyernoz 21-Dec-2008
captaifish,

as i pointed out in that earlier thread, linked to in this post, hamas abided by the ceasefire from when it was entered into in june 2008, up until november 4th, when israel made an incursion into gaza to stop smuggling tunnels. by making the incursion, israel violated the ceasefire, which is why hamas let rockets rain down on southern israel again

though hamas itself isn't firing the rockets right now. most of the rockets are from a rival organization, islamic jihad. it's just that hamas isn't arresting violators like they did during the four months that hamas abided by the ceasefire.

the reason that israel keeps entering into ceasefires with hamas is because they do often abide by them. that being said, hamas has violated them in the past, but so has israel. the notion that one side is perfectly following all the rules and the other is not both hopelessly naive and ignorant of some history.
#7 captainfish 21-Dec-2008
I love the moral relativism.

Are you saying that Hamas is not responsible for what occurs under its nose? Are you saying that Hamas is just as legitimate a state entity as Israel?

I am amazed that Israel even thinks it can have peace agreements with Hamas as it is not even a governmental body. It is a terrorist/thuggish/anti-Israel organization.

Do you honestly believe that the hundreds upon hundreds of rockets launched into Israel do not constitute a breaking of said "truce"?

Also, think about this. What were two members of the Fatah party doing in Hamas controlled areas? They could just as easily fire their rockets from the West Bank. More than likely, they were just arrested by Hamas because Hamas hates Fatah and that was just the excuse given for the arrest. And Hamas is even more militant and anti-Israel than Fatah is.

Recall the rash of murders and executions by Hamas upon Fatah members caught in Gaza? If they do that to their own, how are they going to treat Israel.

There is no way you can spin this to make Israel the bad guys. If I had to choose between terrorists or Israel.. Israel wins every time.
#8 upyernoz 21-Dec-2008
"Are you saying that Hamas is not responsible for what occurs under its nose?"

no, of course not. did you read what i said above?

"Are you saying that Hamas is just as legitimate a state entity as Israel?"

no... i didn't say that either. are you arguing against me, or just what you imagine i really mean?

"I am amazed that Israel even thinks it can have peace agreements with Hamas as it is not even a governmental body"

actually, it is a governmental body. it won the last palestinian elections.

it's also has committed terrorist attacks and is certainly anti-israel. then again, israel is pretty anti-palestinian and also acts thuggishly when it suits its purposes.

"Do you honestly believe that the hundreds upon hundreds of rockets launched into Israel do not constitute a breaking of said "truce"?"

have you read a single thing i have written here or in that last thread? hamas did stop the rocket fire from when it entered into the truce up until when israel violated its terms by sending its military into that gaza strip on november 4th

"What were two members of the Fatah party doing in Hamas controlled areas?"

there are fatah members in the gaza strip. hamas has arrested and/or expelled a lot of them, but it's not like they're wearing uniforms. fatah is the minority in gaza and it's not in control there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.

"ore than likely, they were just arrested by Hamas because Hamas hates Fatah and that was just the excuse given for the arrest."

no, the most likely thing is that hamas called them members of the al-aksa martyr's brigade because it wanted to blame fatah for the rocket fire when it arrested the shooters.

"There is no way you can spin this to make Israel the bad guys."

i'm not. there are no bad guys or good guys. do you think the middle east is like a comic book? this is grownup land, where conflicts bring out the nasty side of everyone.
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